Insurance...

"BJ" (benjamin-bignell) 01/21/2015 at 11:56 • Filed to: insurance

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So my regular insurance company just refused to offer me insurance for a 4x4 because I might take it offroad. They wouldn't even sell me a regular package for on-road usage only. What in the fuck? Now I have less than a day to find a broker and get some insurance from some random company because I might go offroad a couple of times per year... what a joke.

Any tips? Should I just call back and tell them that I won't go offroad? What happens when I do go actually off-road - will my insurance be null and therefore I'm not covered for any perils or accidents?

DAMMIT!

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BJ 01/21/2015 at 11:57

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Just take your business somewhere else. Take advantage of the market. Don't even sweat it.

HammerheadFistpunch > BJ 01/21/2015 at 11:58

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WTH Canada, how do you not expect people to go off road, 90% of the country is offroad.

BJ > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 01/21/2015 at 11:58

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Still, what a pain in the ass! And this company has really great rates, too...

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > BJ 01/21/2015 at 11:59

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They must not get much business if they won't insure SUVs.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:01

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where r u?

BJ > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/21/2015 at 12:02

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They'll insure SUVs just fine. But they also ask if the vehicle has any modifications or will be modified in the coming year, and I mentioned that I might make offroad modifications. Since I may go offroad, I'm no longer insurable, apparently.

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:02

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what in the world, that makes absolutely no sense, I drive a 4wD mercury mountaineer (with true 4WD and a low range) and when we went to go get me insured, the agent didn't even ask if I would ever take it offroad, what insurance company is this).

BJ > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2015 at 12:03

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Ha, perhaps. This company just doesn't offer that type of protection, apparently. I was taken a bit short by this news, so I need to find another insurer, or a broker, and fast!

BJ > OPPOsaurus WRX 01/21/2015 at 12:03

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Montreal, Canada.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:04

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my aunt is a broker but its Mass, USA

BJ > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 01/21/2015 at 12:04

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It's SSQ, a Quebec-based company that sells their own insurance products. They don't broker for any other companies. I guess it's just not in their line of business; I'm not even sure they take motorcycles or other non-car vehicles.

BJ > OPPOsaurus WRX 01/21/2015 at 12:04

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Thanks anyways!

HammerheadFistpunch > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:06

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Also, did I miss the announcement that you bought something?

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:07

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Oh, you admitted something bad dude. Your fault.

Seriously the first time I insured a car (Alfa Romeo, Konis, Ansa exhaust, etc), I had a cool guy do my insurance in person. The conversation went like this...

Me: I need to insure this car.

Agent: Ahh...ok. So you are using this car as a weekend pleasure vehicle, correct?

Me: Actually it is going to be my daily driv.....

Agent: WEEKEND PLEASURE VEHICLE....correct?

Me: Huh...what? Ohh, OHHHH....yeah, weekend pleasure vehicle.

After that quick lesson, I have never had a problem insuring a car.

BJ > HammerheadFistpunch 01/21/2015 at 12:07

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Well, I did test drive an LR3 and a 4Runner. A decision was made, but you'll only find out what I bought when I get my hands on it (tomorrow evening). :)

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:07

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I consider an SUV or a truck a car because 99.9% of people who own one will never actually use them offroad. if they won't insure SUV's, trucks, or other cars that are capable of going offroad, they would be missing out on literally half of all cars.

BJ > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 01/21/2015 at 12:08

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Yeah, but if I roll it when offroading and someone gets hurts, I'd be fucked big time. So I'm best to make sure that I'm properly covered (for the people at least, if not for the truck itself).

BJ > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 01/21/2015 at 12:09

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By non-car I mean boat, RV, ATV, etc. They do insure all regular road-going cars and trucks, but only those that stay on the road, apparently.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:15

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I ran into a similar situation because I bought a pickup... in Ontario all pickups are registered as commercial vehicles by default and it raises questions immediately. You have to get a special plate sticker that says it's for personal use only.

The insurance asked if I was going to use it commercially. I said that I would like to have that option if it was possible, and that I would only be doing 300km commercial (If that).They came back and said that their company didn't do commercial. No problem, then I just won't use it for commercial, my company will have to supply a vehicle for those rare occasions, I'm thinking. No, now that you've asked we can't do anything, we can't take the risk of you using it even once. Fuck you Belair.

All insurance should be public like it is in Manitoba and BC. It's win-win for everybody*. We could have rates as much as 75% lower, and the government would still be bringing in about double what they get in taxes from insurance.

*except David Suzuki.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 01/21/2015 at 12:15

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As the Mercury CAR guy, I know they wouldn't ask you if you were modifying a Mountaineer.

Because people don't typically modify Mountaineer's. (I've seen it tho!)

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 01/21/2015 at 12:17

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Once it's been mentioned it apparently screws the whole deal, because you are a risk of doing it even if you got insurance on the condition of not doing it. Insurance is a f**king scam and should be government run.

Wacko > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:18

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Well there is your problem, SSQ ? I take it as you work for the Government.

Go see a Broker, they will shop around for you.

I'm not being Bias ( I work for the Biggest broker in Abitibi, but I am not a Broker)-I was insured with them before I started to work for them(If you can't beat them, Join them)

I'm insured with Intact for my house, cars, snow mobile, boat, atv and my lifted jeep with 35's

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:18

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Want to know what I told the insurance company when they asked if the Montego was modified?

NO!

It's insured well higher than what I have into it, so any mods would be covered if there were a total loss anyhow hahaha.

Actual mods: Edelbrock Intake Manifold, Holley Carb, Edelbrock Air Cleaner, Dual Flowmaster Super 44's.

Sad part is they asked for new pics of the summer of the car, under hood, interior, odometer, all exterior angles. They didn't catch on to the underhood changes. I think it would take a swapped big block to catch their eye hahahaha.

Wacko > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:19

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don't even look with the banks, or fake banks Like Caisse Pop, unless you like to be screwed

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/21/2015 at 12:19

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well mine on stock suspension and all seasons is far more offroad cabable that even this :P

yeah not really

505Turbeaux > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 01/21/2015 at 12:21

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yup, exactly what you said. NEVER tick that box that says you are going to be a pizza delivery driver either.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 01/21/2015 at 12:21

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Yes, but (refer to my main comment) I was told that if something happened, and I had tools in the vehicle, they wouldn't insure me, as it would mean the vehicle was being used commercially. Doesn't matter apparently if it was commercial use or not. Tools apparently mean commercial use. Now I doubt if they hold it as solid as that in practice, but that's what I was told. Maybe Letho could solve this one.

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:21

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would the government, especially the US government, do it any better?

I know he said he was in quebec, but I think insurance in the US would be even more screwed up if it was run by the government

case and point is the clusterfuck known as obamacare.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:22

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Desjardines, Belair, TD. Just don't bring anything up on your own accord, let them do it.

Wacko > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:25

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None of the above, Go with a broker they will shop prices for you

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 01/21/2015 at 12:27

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dude, we're talking insurance here... no matter who runs it you have at least 50/50 chance of getting screwed. And generally speaking the government run industries (not refering to income tax) screw you over for a fuckload cheaper. My point is, basically, the gov. says you need insurance and then feeds you to the wolves (insurance co.). If they're going to mandate somthing, they should at least provide an public-run option, even if you can get insurance from private companies as well.

BJ > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:28

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I'm on the phone with a broker, trying to make as few calls as possible. The guy seems confused about what I'm talking about...

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 12:29

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I'm with TD... They were cheaper than the brokers I found. That said I was in a last-minute rush. But THAT said, I found an even cheaper option later on @#!$@$%. www.driversfirst.ca

Meatcoma > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:32

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Sounds like you need a new insurance company.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/21/2015 at 12:32

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Around here they ask if there are any mods over 3000 or 5000 (depends on the company). Gives me a challenge for some budget tuning. Reckon I can get Intake, exhaust, cam and tune if I play it right.

Meatcoma > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:32

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You get what you pay for.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 12:33

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TD was cheap—is there some fine-print bullshit I shoul look for?

BJ > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:34

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I used to be with TD for many years, but SSQ made a quote for our Passat that was literally half of what everyone else offered. That was an easy choice.

Still on hold with the broker... they're verifying something... what a pain.

Wacko > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:34

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I requested a quote from TD when i bought my house, they gave me a price, and seemed proud of their price, until she asked what i thought about it, I told her,

Well You are double the highest quote I got so far, so thank-you and good bye.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:34

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What are they confused about?

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:37

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I don't think you'd be covered in any case for such things.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 12:38

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I did that to PC... "X$ was your lowest quote! would you like to proceed?" Yeah, sure... after you slash your rates by about 12000$ to match the highest premium on kanetix, maybe we can talk.

HammerheadFistpunch > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:38

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I know what you bought...I'm not sad about it, but I'm not as excited as I could have been (I actually have no clue)

BJ > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:38

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About taking a vehicle off-road. He wanted to know if I would race or rally... uh, no. In the end, he came back on the line and said that they couldn't insure me.

BJ > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 01/21/2015 at 12:39

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It appears I'm going to need some sort of specialized insurance product, or just not be insured for off-road activities. This is a pain.

BJ > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:41

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TD is TD Meloche Monnex, so it's not actually the bank that insures you - it's a separate broker that underwrites policies from a couple of other companies. But often bank-brokered insurance is very pricey.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:41

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I'm not from Canada so I don't know anything about SSQ or the insurance system up there. But from what you just said, if SSQ is selling their own insurance products and they don't take motorcycles and such, maybe they are just trying to limit their liability. A much larger insurer doesn't care because they have so many more clients and such a great income stream you're worth the risk, and if you do get into a wreck offroading the payout isn't even really a drop in their bucket. It's all risk/reward. A smaller company is thinking about how expensive its going to be if you do wreck offroading. A larger company is going to think about how you'll only do it a couple of times a year at most.

I had a similar experience a few years ago when I got a quote to switch to USAA. I was thinking I'd get a great deal because I was in the military, but it turned out they don't insure motorcycles. Mostly, I think, because every nut in the service runs out and buys an absurdly fast sport bike and every year hundreds get themselves hurt or killed on said bike. So they have a partner, I think it was Geico or Progressive, who I had to go through to insure the bike. Long story short it ended up being about the same price, so I stayed with my current company for less hassle.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:43

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on what vehicle/engine?

Should be really easy to do those 3 and a half mods (I'll count the tune as a half lol) for under 3k

It's almost cheating with the Montego, I paid 2500 for it, it's worth close to 11k says NADA (I know I couldn't get that with a for sale sign on it tho) so my $5-600 investment of modifications is MORE than covered.

BJ > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:43

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We have a combination of public + private insurance here. To get your license plate, which includes personal liability and property damage (PLPD) for others but not for you or your vehicle, you must provide proof of insurance for the vehicle itself. It's complicated.

And it's also a no-fault system - don't get me started on that!

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:46

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I know british colombia has government-run car insurance, but its a monopoly, you have to use them for basic liability insurance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance…

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:46

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Well to me there are two levels of coverage.

The coverage that is required to get your car registered legally where you live.

The coverage that is required to cover personal injury and the actual value of the vehicle.

My thoughts only apply to the former. On the latter, I wish you luck with a vehicle you intend to take off road. My Spitfire is insured for the former. On the latter...you are getting into a car that weighs less than 1700lbs with a 1300cc engine. If you are not willing to take the risks that go with it, stay outta my car.

BJ > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 12:47

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I'm with SSQ because their rates on our other car (a VW Passat wagon) were super cheap - half of what the competition wanted. I'm not a gov't employee.

The broker I called wouldn't insure me either.

I'm going to call Intact and see what they offer. I guess I should not mention off-roading? How does your policy handle the modifications? Are they declared as "esthetic"?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:48

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That could explain it.

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:49

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Why should you be insured for off road activities any more than I should be when using my car at the track? If you are at the track, your insurance ain't covering a thing on your car or anyone in it. Why should off roading be different?

BJ > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 12:49

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I'm with SSQ because their rates on our other car (a VW Passat wagon) were super cheap - half of what the competition wanted. I'm not a gov't employee.

The broker I called wouldn't insure me either.

I'm going to call Intact and see what they offer. I guess I should not mention off-roading? How does your policy handle the modifications? Are they declared as "esthetic"?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/21/2015 at 12:49

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2010 Colorado 5.3 V8. LS motor so shouldn't be hard, like you say.

BJ > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 01/21/2015 at 12:50

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Fair enough.

The problem is now that my current insurer won't talk to me because we've had the "offroad" conversation. Oh well, live and learn.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:52

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Same here, Gov't says you have to provide a policy # to register the vehicle, but throws you to the waiting scammers to go get it. with a captive market and no price ceiling or gov't verification of the stats the companies use, it's just that; a scam.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 01/21/2015 at 12:55

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Yes, but you could concievably do it either way. Say gov't for the essentials and private for "extra" coverage. Manitaba has a similar system to BC. I checked their quotes when I was 17. the quote was about 8 times lower than an equivalent Ontario quote.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 12:56

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how do you like it? I've always thought those were awesome trucks. Wanted a V8 Canyon

Wacko > BJ 01/21/2015 at 12:58

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didn't ask, didn't tell.

The way I see it is I'm 100% road legal, that's all they need to know. P.s my jeep has civil insurance, it's a 97.

If you call Intact you will be talking to a Broker, Like Univestas or other's in the montreal region. Cause Intact will trace your number and Dispatch you to a broker in your area.

The Trick is you insure all your stuff at the same place to get multi product rebates. Like Insuring my Jeep gave me 10% off my car, which comes up to the price of the Jeep insurance. So having my jeep cost me nothing more per year (in insurance) than not insuring it. Plus I get rebates for working for an insurance broker from intact, and my job gives me back 10% of my insurance costs every year.

Every one I know who are With SSQ are work for the Government, Since their Unions have package deals with SSQ. The deals are not so great by the way....

BJ > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 13:02

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Good to know. I did an online quote with Intact, not impressed with the price. TD Insurance gave a better rate including the taxes, and I have home insurance with them.

To the phones!

Wacko > BJ 01/21/2015 at 13:07

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yes call, online quotes don't give you all rebates, ps Intact is not always the cheapest

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/21/2015 at 13:11

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I would say anything anyone has ever said is true. Rattly little truck. Cheap feel inside. Despite the rattles, feels fairly solid. Do you remeber the Top Gear episode where Richard tests a Boxter and a Z4? His description of the Z4's handling fits the way the Colorado handles. Treat it like the Boxter and it'll make you look like and idiot. Grab it by the balls and it's a lot of fun in the bends. On top of that the V8 really brings it to life... too bad it's let down by the 4l60e. No manual with the V8 :(

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 13:29

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Hahahaha great description, though it having an auto isn't a negative for me, I don't want a manual in a DD (I know i'm a rarity on here)

Gabriel > BJ 01/21/2015 at 13:30

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First time I ever heard an insurance refusing for that reason... What kind of vehicle is that? I've used SSQ, La Personnelle and now I use a broker (yes, I shop twice a year for insurance and switch often) and never had issues insuring a 26 yo diesel Land Cruiser and a 2010 4Runner. Did you tell them that you are going to put it on trails or something? What you should really care about is that they would want to know about any mods you make to it.

Shop elsewhere. I'm now with Aviva and both vehicles (gf and mine) had been in accident during the last week (tough week...) and they treated me well, I even have told the broker that they are annoying because they call you back a couple of times to make sure your case is going forward and if I have any issue with Aviva. But the broker service is stellar and made huge discount for Subaru owner.

Gabriel > BJ 01/21/2015 at 13:33

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This is a public road: http://gabrielm.kinja.com/fun-with-the-s… . Depending on which side you come up, you may need a winch. So you can say you'll be on public road, I even done some non-maintained road in NH (class 6 maybe?) that I need a spotter to go through.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/21/2015 at 13:37

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Yeah, I'm probably better off without. Still would be nice to have a manual though. Good news is most of the issues can be solved with a tune anyway.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > BJ 01/21/2015 at 13:42

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Try RBC for me the are ridiculously well priced. over a thousand less per year than the other companies I've dealt with.

I'm 29 with:

1 accident (backed into a parked car 100% my fault 4000.00 in damage in 2009)

1 fire claim (apartment below me caught on fire and I had massive smoke damage 2010)

1 excessive speeding ticket (with a 30 day suspension 2011)

I pay $1518 for 2 cars (full coverage on 2013 Ford Fusion and liability only on a 79 Lincoln Continental)

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 01/21/2015 at 13:47

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Yeah, I don't mind manuals in a "fun car" but in my main vehicle, nah. I didn't seek out an automatic in the 68 Montego, it just happened to have one and it wasn't a deal breaker. Would have went either way for a classic. Daily - not a chance.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Wacko 01/21/2015 at 13:48

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Yeah those discounts are the tits. When I added the Lincoln to my insurance policy my insurance went down $10/month. So essentially they are paying me $10.00 a month to insure my Lincoln with them. Can't go wrong with a deal like that.

BJ > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/21/2015 at 20:37

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Thanks, I've got my insurance with TD Insurance (TD Meloche Monnex) finally, who also insure our home and a revenue property. Reasonable price + discounts on both properties, which is nice.

The only reason I was with SSQ before is that they made an error when I initially signed up, and they have to honour it on that car until I leave or sell. The price they charge is about 1/2 less, worth $600, than the quoted rate from every other insurer.

BJ > Gabriel 01/21/2015 at 20:39

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Yeah, I think they misunderstood and expected that I would be doing some sort of off-road racing, rallying, or illegal activity. And now that they have that misconception, they won't insure the vehicle.

No big deal, I got insurance elsewhere for a fair price. Good learning experience, though!

BJ > Gabriel 01/21/2015 at 20:43

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Oy, sorry to hear about the accidents... no-one was hurt, I hope.

I just signed up with TD and for $20/year you get "accident forgiveness" where the first accident will not affect your rates, and your deductible is lower, too (until you have that accident). I'm hoping to never use this feature!

I'll be in touch to get the name of your broker if ever I find myself in a similar situation. For the time being, my insurance needs are met and the prices are decent.

Gabriel > BJ 01/22/2015 at 06:29

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No one was hurt, but my gf Subaru will get a new front end and I will get a new bumper (only plastics part were broken).

For the records, I use Lareau Assurances and the insurance company is Aviva.